Welcome to Eclipsed Views

Where we take difficult topics and try to identify what’s blocking your view. Try to unlearn and rewash and possibly rewire our brains since we don’t seem to be having much luck changing other people’s views.

Street Epistemology - Socratic Questioning

How did you come to that stance?
Are those reasons legitimate enough to continue to hold that stance?
Is this process a useful and efficient process to figuring out the truth

Conjecture - Forming an opinion based on incomplete information.

How do you know when you have enough evidence to form an opinion?

DISCLAIMER: Some hard and difficult topics. If you are easily offended, this may not be for you. There are sometimes some hard topics and hard truths, and if you are not ready for it, i suggest maybe to revisit at a later time when you do feel more prepared.

Topic - Intentions vs Outcomes

COVID

I can’t remember the first time I heard the phrase: “You judge yourself based on your intentions, but judge other based on their actions.” But, it really blew my mind and realized how true that was. So that’s why I thought this was a good topic of discussion and used it for the podcast episode.

Through the COVID-19 pandemic, whether we were mask-wearers or not, our intentions were sometimes pretty similar. Very few of us thought we were ACTUALLY causing harm to someone else. I think it was too invisible or slow moving of an effect to actually think much of it. We would justify our outing and make ourselves believe that this instance was ok. If you acquired COVID in public, it was unlikely it was going to be traced back to a specific person or instance. So our intention was that we’re going to be careful and stay away from people, and it was going to be fast, and everything would be okay. However, in some situations (several million), that was not the outcome. It appears to me that people have a hard time tracing back their actions, and even taking some responsibility, or realizing they had more choices on handling the situation.

For example, grocery shopping (during lockdown, pre-vaccinations). Many of us like to pick our own produce and didn’t want to leave it to the employee, because they wouldn’t pick “the ones you liked.”

Scenario 1 - You acquire COVID at the grocery store because YOU wanted to pick your produce. Your intention wasn’t to contract COVID, but it was the outcome. There are several other consequences that come with this besides getting sick. Other people have to stay away from you. Other people have to bring you food or care for you. It was a risk we were willing to take and justified it for ourselves.
Scenario 2 - A family member acquires COVID at the grocery store because THEY wanted to pick their produce. Their intention wasn’t to contract COVID, but it was the outcome. But now, we seem to get upset at people in general, because they are not staying home, and are putting other people at risk, etc. Why is this not justified for the other person that may have done the same action as you?

COVID and lockdown made me be in my head a lot and really see a different side of people. These scenarios are more applicable to day-to-day life. These are what I used in the podcast.

Your partner makes a joke that upsets you. You know that they didn’t mean any harm, but it still stings. Their intent was lighthearted, but the impact is that your feelings are hurt. On a scale of 1-100, which is more important, 1 being intent, and 100 being outcome?
A friend comes to you to talk about an issue they’re having at work. You offer them advice, but your friend is defensive and ends the conversation. You later learn that they felt like you were telling them they handled the situation poorly. Your intent was to offer an action plan, but the impact was that they felt judged. On a scale of 1-100, which is more important, 1 being intent, and 100 being outcome?

Are there instances where intent should be more important?

I don’t really like punishing people for trying to help, but sometimes their help can end up causing a lot inconvenience and then it may time to put a stop to it. I always like to think of input to output, or cost/benefit. What effort or actions are being put into this, and is the end result what I desired for? Is their help greater than the inconvenience?

Are there instances where outcome should be more important?

The best i could come up with is life or death situations or situations with high stakes. A surgery, handling a large sum of money. When the stakes are higher, there is less room for acknowledgement of intent. Mostly also because there should be a track record of experience that builds trust. If they or you are not trusted, then it appears less likely that the desired outcome will occur.

Societal Communities

My INTENTION is not to offend in this section, but to try and understand. But there are a lot of communities that may be misunderstood (myself included).

LGBT, BLM, Religion, & Politics.

If you do not belong to one of these communities, it appears that judging others based on their actions holds true. For example, if I am not part of the LGBT community and say something without the intent of offending, i may be on the receiving end of some consequences. That is fair enough, but I do think the punishment should fit the crime. If somebody innocently says something without the intention of offending, they should be notified. “Hey, I don’t know if you meant it this way, but this is the way it can be taken.” That gives them a chance to clarify. However, if you notify someone and there is not much further explanation, this gives the impression that the intention was different, with maybe the intention to offend. Does that make sense?

A variety of similar situations can occur with the rest of these communities. People may not always have the intention to offend. Give them a chance to clarify. We started watching Ted Lasso and mentions a quote from Walt Whitman. “Be curious, not judgemental.” They may be making a judgement based on all the information they know. That’s where it’s conjecture. Forming opinions based on insufficient evidence. Inform them and provide them with new evidence see if that can sway their opinion. Again, through the mode of Socratic questioning, this has to be done in a non-confrontational way. Easier said than done.

Family

We end up with a lot of habits that are purely our own, and a lot that are taught. Perhaps even some toxic ones. Family may not have known or have had enough evidence to realize some of the behaviors were harmful, but I still think there needs to be accountability somewhere. Where is the line? Their intention may have been to stop or encourage a certain behavior. These effects are now carried on by you in other parts of your life. Job performance, social interactions. At what cost? Do the ends justify the means?

Health

Intentions vs outcomes with ourselves. How we treat our health and bodies. A lot of the food we prefer isn’t the most nutritious. We hear a bunch of signs that notify us not to do these things, but we don’t listen. Is it like the COVID example where this is too slow to be recognizable? We almost literally “poison” ourselves, and are expecting a different outcome? To me, it gives the illusion that we know our tolerance and the situation we are putting ourselves in. We will be experiencing the heart-attack/stroke, not somebody else. Body-autonomy? But the effects will have an effect on other people as well. People that will have to take care of you, even if its a few days or nothing long-term. They will have to take some time from their day to run errands for you, or get you medication. Would you mind doing it for somebody them? At first, I think the answer is no. I wouldn’t mind doing it for a friend. What if their behavior doesn’t change and keep treating themselves the same way. They are in that same situation all over again. And again. Slowly it adds up, to the amount of time you’ve missed from work. Opportunities you may have missed out on. Does it matter now? Where is the line? Is there a line?

Give a listen to the discussion we had and love to know your thoughts. Exceptions. Scenarios. Etc.

Intentions vs Outcomes. How do you judge yourself and others?